Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games

Talk about anything you want here. From current events to nerd news to pointless ranting. All's fair here.

Moderator: Suicide

User avatar
Nezz
Posts: 122
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 5:14 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by Nezz »

mutantoverlord wrote:but i can understand it becuase he refusal to include this said information makes it seem more like a personal attack against gamers than anything.
Sir, you have missed the point by such a wide mark, my palm has gone through my face. The series is highlighting the inequality of males and females in games. Not just in number, but in role. This has nothing to do with the gamers themselves, but the developers and producers. I am by no means a feminist, I'm on this board for the same reason most of the people are. But she's not attacking people who play games in any sense. Including role models such as Cammy, Chun-Li, Samus, Lara Croft, Aya Brea, Jill Valentine, Heather Mason and so on would be neither more nor less of an attack on people who simply play the games they're in.

The biggest problem here is that while no actual women are hurt by all these "gang grabs girl, win her back" games, the problem is that it perpetuates certain themes that a lot of people won't understand, especially if they've got a Y chromosome somewhere in there. Games used to be for little geek boys, now they're as much a statement of popular culture as movies and music. People of all ages and genders play them. But in the earlier days, women were exactly as highlighted in the video. Mostly useless, confined to the winning kiss screen, or background characters. In modern times, while the protagonist is still usually a white muscular male in his 30s with a dark buzzcut hairstyle, equality shows through more, particulary in MMOs where there's no stat differences in sex options. Males don't hit harder through a bigger strength stat. Women don't make better mages because of a higher intelligence stat. Even NPCs are getting a fairer deal.

http://youtu.be/C5Lfb5dOQSA?t=1m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take a look at this clip. There's a DID scene in it, if anyone needs incentive. Skip to around 1 minute in if doesn't go there. Close to the end, Lilisette is grabbed from behind by an invisible enemy. But prior to that, she single-handedly stops the surrender of a nation, kicking major ass along the way. She kicks an orc about twice her size into the air. She outplays the rest and only finally gets shut down when someone has to sneak behind her. You could argue that it's still a perpetuation of the "women are weak" thing because she still gets grabbed and put in a helpless situation. It's also not until her assailtant is shocked by the arrival of the hero that he loosens his grip enough for Lilisette to escape. But at the same time, consider that Nag'molada (that's the bad guy here) couldn't take her on face to face and had to use a coward's technique. 20 years ago, Lilisette would probably have just screamed and been overpowered by the gang of orcs. Instead, she takes them all out, one by one.

It's a little hypocritical for me to say there should be more equality - either more men in distress, or less damsels in distress - because as I already said, the majority of us are here because we love those scenes and some of us have contirbuted to it. Whether through screencaps, fics, artwork and even roleplay, we've done our bit. The main point is if it influences life outside the screen. Not just down to bondage kinks, but just a little gear in a larger machine that contributes to the belief that women are less capable at something and need to be protected. If anything, the reaction to these videos has shown that an excessively large number of people are ignorant, rude assholes that are afraid of being put in their place by a female. I watch a lot of fighting game tournaments, where nobody seems to mind the fact that Cammy is enjoyng her place as one of the best characters in Street Fighter 4 right now, used by some of the top competitive players. But it's also still sadly a place where the phrase "beaten by a girl" carries some humiliation if a male player loses to a female. Take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj5qggy-fAU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I know that Youtube comments are possibly the biggest supermassive black hole of intelligence on the internet, but look at some of them there.

She just proved herself, but the fact that being skilled at a game and being attractive and/or female are mutually exclusive, in the eyes of some of these morons. That is the platypus.
My children called me "Daddy". My wife called me "Milien". Now the world will learn to call me... NOX...
mutantoverlord
Posts: 188
Joined: June 16th, 2011, 11:03 pm

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by mutantoverlord »

Nezz wrote:
mutantoverlord wrote:but i can understand it becuase he refusal to include this said information makes it seem more like a personal attack against gamers than anything.
Sir, you have missed the point by such a wide mark, my palm has gone through my face. The series is highlighting the inequality of males and females in games. Not just in number, but in role. This has nothing to do with the gamers themselves, but the developers and producers. I am by no means a feminist, I'm on this board for the same reason most of the people are. But she's not attacking people who play games in any sense. Including role models such as Cammy, Chun-Li, Samus, Lara Croft, Aya Brea, Jill Valentine, Heather Mason and so on would be neither more nor less of an attack on people who simply play the games they're in.

The biggest problem here is that while no actual women are hurt by all these "gang grabs girl, win her back" games, the problem is that it perpetuates certain themes that a lot of people won't understand, especially if they've got a Y chromosome somewhere in there. Games used to be for little geek boys, now they're as much a statement of popular culture as movies and music. People of all ages and genders play them. But in the earlier days, women were exactly as highlighted in the video. Mostly useless, confined to the winning kiss screen, or background characters. In modern times, while the protagonist is still usually a white muscular male in his 30s with a dark buzzcut hairstyle, equality shows through more, particulary in MMOs where there's no stat differences in sex options. Males don't hit harder through a bigger strength stat. Women don't make better mages because of a higher intelligence stat. Even NPCs are getting a fairer deal.

http://youtu.be/C5Lfb5dOQSA?t=1m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take a look at this clip. There's a DID scene in it, if anyone needs incentive. Skip to around 1 minute in if doesn't go there. Close to the end, Lilisette is grabbed from behind by an invisible enemy. But prior to that, she single-handedly stops the surrender of a nation, kicking major ass along the way. She kicks an orc about twice her size into the air. She outplays the rest and only finally gets shut down when someone has to sneak behind her. You could argue that it's still a perpetuation of the "women are weak" thing because she still gets grabbed and put in a helpless situation. It's also not until her assailtant is shocked by the arrival of the hero that he loosens his grip enough for Lilisette to escape. But at the same time, consider that Nag'molada (that's the bad guy here) couldn't take her on face to face and had to use a coward's technique. 20 years ago, Lilisette would probably have just screamed and been overpowered by the gang of orcs. Instead, she takes them all out, one by one.

It's a little hypocritical for me to say there should be more equality - either more men in distress, or less damsels in distress - because as I already said, the majority of us are here because we love those scenes and some of us have contirbuted to it. Whether through screencaps, fics, artwork and even roleplay, we've done our bit. The main point is if it influences life outside the screen. Not just down to bondage kinks, but just a little gear in a larger machine that contributes to the belief that women are less capable at something and need to be protected. If anything, the reaction to these videos has shown that an excessively large number of people are ignorant, rude assholes that are afraid of being put in their place by a female. I watch a lot of fighting game tournaments, where nobody seems to mind the fact that Cammy is enjoyng her place as one of the best characters in Street Fighter 4 right now, used by some of the top competitive players. But it's also still sadly a place where the phrase "beaten by a girl" carries some humiliation if a male player loses to a female. Take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj5qggy-fAU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I know that Youtube comments are possibly the biggest supermassive black hole of intelligence on the internet, but look at some of them there.

She just proved herself, but the fact that being skilled at a game and being attractive and/or female are mutually exclusive, in the eyes of some of these morons. That is the platypus.
......and you just used her technique. if you look closely, i said she SEEMED to be attacking. while you put that in you seemed to think that i actually thought she was attackign people.
but you discluded the evidence contrary to your point by not including detail that i thoguht she should have been a bit more fair, giving examples of female characters who are far from a prize and could kick the ass of several of their male coutnerparts (including the fact that before we had a male power suit soldier, we had a female one). and also me stating that the people overreacting to all of this are being immature and doing little to actually counter her points because of it.

see, this is my problem with her views, what you just did. excluding information to try to make it sound one sided when in reality i was far in my claim. i think she should have been a bit more open minded, but more than aggreed that the reaction of people was simply unacceptable and exaggerrated.
so your claim agaisnt me falls apart as i had said, to begin with, i was kinda on the fence with it. i am on neither side of either thefeminist there or the teeming madness she stirred up.
mutantoverlord
Posts: 188
Joined: June 16th, 2011, 11:03 pm

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by mutantoverlord »

not to mention the mad ramblings of idiots are never a good repersentation of a kind of people, usually. like preppers. mostly you hear about the guys who think cats will bring forth the apocalypse but most of them are just people erring on the side of caution. it is a scary world i admit, sometimes a bit of cuation can be worthwhile.

either way women in videogames, and most media, have been getting much better roles, yet that is never brought up in that argument there. like i said, more independent and strong women appear in games now more than ever. Morrigan from dragon age, as i used as an example, is a beautiful but wild and free willed creature, and deadly at that. even peach has a few betters roles herself, and zelda has slowly begun going out of the sterotype damsel.
just saying when it has become a world where you can play as peach as she bitch slaps some manners into bowser, quite literally, i am thinking things are evolving a bit.
User avatar
AH-64D Longbow
Posts: 93
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by AH-64D Longbow »

The bigger and more pressing question is someone who lacks consistency like she does make nearly $160,000 and then even delivers her work practically a year late. I wish I could find a demographic if suckers as idiotic and willing to part with their money to be told their bad people for no real reason like gamers. Her video was pretty much just reading from wikipedia and making baseless assertions, which could easily be applied to the voiceless, muscle bound, violence prone male protagonists oh so common in video games. This isn't an argument about how sexist games are, but rather how juvenile and horrible video games are as an art form.

For someone who holds multiple degrees, it's rather alarming how purely she constructs statements. In a decent High School debate function, her statements would be picked apart be even neophytes. It's a trait that is common amongst many of these third-wave/internet feminists and similar social justice warriors: Over analyze everything, everything is out to get you, whore yourself out for attention, and treat internet comments like threats at gunpoint. Using flames and trolls as a means to construct a threat narrative is hilariously pathetic. No one of sound mind should even consider comments from a pimply-faced 14 year old nerd or even a 30 something with the mental development of the former as a genuine threats they can make good on. Closing comments and ratings on her videos is a move of cowardice, and it says that she feels people are unworthy of rating or critiquing her video. It's within realm of censorship that charlatans like this can only exist. If placed on the free marketplace of ideas, they quickly get picked apart.

In the end, these two Youtube users have eloquently put together videos that illustrate her dishonesty and inability to construct coherent and consistent content. Plus, her taste is fucking horrible and anyone that didn't think that she was going to pick out the most obvious and glaring characters as opposed to someone like Jack from ME2, was kidding themselves.

Again, Gamers are a demographic that PT Barnum would have adored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeX6F-Q63I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It should be noted that she's since gone and tried to eliminate her masters thesis from public view, and failed instead of actually addressing the contradictions like a mature adult would. Instead, let's just ride the guilt gravy train into TED Talks and let our legions of non-thinking tools accuse anyone who disagrees with being:
  • a rapist
  • a rape apologist
  • a misogynist
  • an oppressor
  • Satan with a penis
  • a brainwashed and oppressed woman who is a slave to the patriarchy and is obviously not capable of thinking for herself because she disagrees with me
  • Hitler
This breed of radicalized douchebaggery can only exist on the internet as only through the perceived anonymity of the internet can they insult people and try to defeat arguments by not addressing them, but by undermining them with the phantom of "privilege."
All I'm sayin' is: Give war a chance.
User avatar
Suicide
Posts: 3643
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by Suicide »

Just gonna go ahead and move this to the General Discussion area. Probably shoulda gone there in the first place. Continue... IF YOU DARE!
It's a trait that is common amongst many of these third-wave/internet feminists and similar social justice warriors: Over analyze everything, everything is out to get you, whore yourself out for attention, and treat internet comments like threats at gunpoint.
Hear hear.
Image
disguiseartist1
Posts: 707
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 4:28 pm

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by disguiseartist1 »

Those comments are appalling, and she was right to be worried. All it takes is one of these scumbags being serious.
And the hilarious part is they essentially won the argument for her. All the coverage of this I've seen frames it as her being threatened by hoards of misogynist jackasses just for speaking out against sexism.

Regardless of the merits of her argument, these goons shot themselves (and anyone agreeing with them) in the foot the second they did this. Nobody is going to come out and express solidarity with animals threatening rape just because someone badmouthed their precious computer games.
User avatar
AH-64D Longbow
Posts: 93
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by AH-64D Longbow »

disguiseartist1 wrote:Those comments are appalling, and she was right to be worried.
I'm coming to your house with my Vz.58 and seeing if I can't make it collapse from the sheer weight of rounds put down range.

There's absolutely no reason to be worried in anyway, shape, or form about internet threats. Knowing someone's name is hardly identity enough to find out where they live, learn their routine, and act out a violent fantasy. It's all facile, as is Anita's entire argument. Indeed, probably five minutes after making such a threat, as above, a Sarkeesian hater would probably be blissfully distracted by a PewDiePie video.
All it takes is one of these scumbags being serious.
A big so what? That would hardly be relevant to the issue as it's not a function of patriarchy, but a function of a lack of effective mental healthcare measures that has allowed an individual so maladjusted to go out into society with out efforts to correct their behavior.
And the hilarious part is they essentially won the argument for her. All the coverage of this I've seen frames it as her being threatened by hoards of misogynist jackasses just for speaking out against sexism.
That's by design, and in the end her "victory" will be short lived as she'll probably get shelve as some feature on a website, with ever decreasing viewership. Really fighting dat patriarchy from obscurity. The only people she's reached are those in the know, she's hardly accomplished anything in any way.
Regardless of the merits of her argument, these goons shot themselves (and anyone agreeing with them) in the foot the second they did this. Nobody is going to come out and express solidarity with animals threatening rape just because someone badmouthed their precious computer games.
And only a dishonest simpleton would couch those picking apart her facile statements with those that make such comments.
All I'm sayin' is: Give war a chance.
User avatar
Suicide
Posts: 3643
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by Suicide »

Image
It's a video about video games most of us played as kids. Does it really require this?

SEE DAT!? I DONE FLIPPED THAT SHIT ON YOU! UUHHNN!!
:P
a Sarkeesian hater would probably be blissfully distracted by a PewDiePie video.
I'm distracted by his continued success... does that count?
Image
User avatar
Suicide
Posts: 3643
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by Suicide »

And Damn... if only people took this much passion into suggesting themes for free DiD pics from board members...

hint hint :P
Image
User avatar
AH-64D Longbow
Posts: 93
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by AH-64D Longbow »

Suicide wrote:Image


SEE DAT!? I DONE FLIPPED THAT SHIT ON YOU! UUHHNN!!
:P
Image

FUCK.
a Sarkeesian hater would probably be blissfully distracted by a PewDiePie video.
I'm distracted by his continued success... does that count?
I want know how it's possible, personally. All the good scams are taken, it seems.
All I'm sayin' is: Give war a chance.
DXKramer
Posts: 50
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by DXKramer »

Everyone here has indeed made really good points, and I am damn well not going to argue with any of you on them.

As previously stated before, the big thing that grinds my gears on this is she suckered $160,000 out of people for what? Where did all that money go? Does anyone have an way of finding out?
Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver.
User avatar
Suichiro
Posts: 159
Joined: May 24th, 2011, 5:11 pm

Re: Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Ga

Post by Suichiro »

People gave their money to her willingly. There was no scam at work here, she's delivering *exactly* what she said she would. If people wanted to heap money on her hand over fist, then that's on them. Really, if you want to point fingers, point them at all the people who so willingly gave their money.
Post Reply